I was trying to figure out how these things operate and came across something that I had never seen before. The operating temperature is 1,000 degrees Centigrade: that is over 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit. This is about the same temperature as volcanic lava! Once the reaction gets started, it sustains itself at that temperature.
How efficient can this reaction be if the “exhaust” comes out at 1,800 degrees. The burning temp of a natural gas flame is around 3,000 degrees F. I am suspicious.
I don’t believe I have ever seen a comparison of the amount of electricity produced by these magic boxes as compared to a modern combined cycle gas unit by the same amount of gas.
I would also be interested in the energy used in the production of the “special inks” that the plates are coated with. Could these things actually be more storing energy rather than producing it; not unlike a battery? Another way to analyze this would be if the Bloom factory runs exclusively on Bloom Boxes? Do they?
If anyone has data on this, I am curious.
Could Bloom Energy’s factory run on Bloom Boxes?
October 28, 2011 by Steve Larrimore
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Steve, from what I know Bloom has been at this for almost ten years. Although the technology was first proved on Mars. John Doerr, perhaps the most respected American venture capitalist, is the lead investor in Bloom. Vinod Khosla, another gold standard VC inventor is in too. I think Bloom got private sector investors to kick in around $600 million so far. One piece I read said Bloom did not get any Dept Of Energy money. Hard to believe. Why I wonder.
I can’t vouch for the science, but it would seem those private investors, especially the top dogs, would do their homework before they invest.
This really is NASA technology coming to earth. Bloom says “From humble beginnings on Mars, Bloom Energy is now changing the Earth for the better”.
These boxes can run on fuels beside natural gas. I’m no expert for sure, but it looks to me like Delaware is lucky to get this. Part of the buzz is “game changer”, get people off the grid someday. What a boast to the economy and national security that would be. Sort of like flying cars only not as risky maybe.
Got a feeling we will wish we invested.
Yes, John Doerr (also of Fisker) and Friend of Barack, has discovered that the Dover bunch are easy marks as did Bluewater before them.
Bloom’s business model “works” as long as it is heavily taxpayer subsidized. Now that Kalifornia (I know Arnold is not Governator anymore but I liked the way he said it) is bankrupt, Bloom followed the breadcrumbs that our Kalifornia DNREC Secretary left on his way to Dover.
No DOE money YET, is what you should say. If they can get a shovel in the ground before the end of the year they will cash in with a DOE grant.
As far as investing, that is for individuals, not governments. Investing usually entails some sort of equity stake in the company which is what makes tax money so attractive. They just give it to you for nothing and then force people who don’t want to buy what you are peddling to buy your junk anyway. It reminds me of a street mugging with the state government providing the muscle. I guess some people would call that success.
Steve, the Bloom Energy Server is distinct in four primary ways: it uses lower cost abundant materials, provides unmatched efficiency in converting fuel to electricity, has the ability to run on a wide range of renewable or traditional fuels, and is more easily deployed and maintained than traditional hydrogen fuel cells.
Hard to understand what you mean investing is not for government.
That’s the way we’ve always done it. Are you calling for a fundamental transformation of America? No more pubic private ventures?
Wonder how that view of things would have applied in the 1860′s with the Homestead Act. Or, during that same period the Pacific Railroad Acts of 1862. The Government supported linking the East and West with a railroad by issuing 30 year bonds along with extensive free land grants. Public/private partnership is the secret to our success. The government subsidized the hell out of that privately owned railroad.
I’m sure some people back then were focused on the negative side of things, but for most, it was a miracle waiting to happen.
I honestly don’t understand all the disdain for our Government. Truth is we have a great country. I watched those NASA robots explore Mars for years. The missions were powered in part by the technology Bloom is trying to commercialize. Fuel cells might just be part of cracking the energy code.
Naysayers serve a purpose. Maybe keeps the doers on their toes. But it’s the visionaries, the doers, the risk takers that make America great, not the naysayers.
Maybe some folks don’t feel part of the system. Everybody is stealing. Everything is junk. That maybe elections don’t mean anything. The reality is this is about as close as government by the people as the world’s ever known. Why make is sound like everything is crap.
All you have to do is ask America’s richest family, the Waltons, what they think of The Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956. Back in 1939 the government started talking in earnest about a very complex web of interstate roads bridges byways, slowly but bureaucratically surely they figured things out, raised money, established all kinds of commissions and transportation offices. Finally in 1956 Ike got things going big time and before we know it – we can drive to see our family, see the country, the government highway program radically transformed commerce in America. It was it is an amazing tool for extending the range of individual freedom. That single government funded program, Government Highways, is probably the greatest engine for the creation of wealth the world has ever known.
We are on the verge of a revolution in energy. Be happy, don’t worry.
Bill,
I am continually amazed at your unwavering faith in the abilities, motives, efficiencies and honesty of any and all facets of government. With all of these brilliant minds working in government bureaucracies, it is a wonder that there are any moderately functional people to work in the private sector at all. Perhaps that is why the guidance of federal and state government has become so valuable in recent years.
Without all of their assistance we would probably have had a recession and we might have even experienced over 9% unemployment. Sure glad for all of the regulations that they enforce on those who fail to make campaign contributions.
Not everyone is stealing and not everything is junk. The thieves are stealing and the junk is junk! No one in the government has the wisdom or authority to pick winners and losers. Elections do mean things as evidenced by the mess we find ourselves in.
And I think that after we built the highways we continued to own them and make them available to all of the citizens in order to provide for the general welfare of the citizenry not the engorgement of the politically connected. I realize that you will see no difference in highways that the government still owns and taking tax money away from other fuel cell companies to give it to Bloom so they can sell their magic boxes for $800,000 verses systems that allow goods to reach everyone in the country in the least expensive way. You may have me on the the railroads.
Steve, a lot of folks think the way you do. I get it. The last twenty years we somehow got into this thing so self-loathing, which is what anti – government really is. The way I see it, the private sector lives in the house the government built. It’s a totally symbiotic relationship. Two completely different almost parallel universes, the private and the public, and neither can exist without the other. Once that inalienable truth is grasped a lot of what is happening makes more sense.
And yes, the government can pick winners. So can the private sector. We all pick winners and losers all the time. The shale gas revolution in the Northeast has tremendous promise for jobs and energy. As you know, government is involved with the private sector, in many many countless ways picking shale as a winner. Even ways we never hear about like a $5 million dollar government grant to area colleges to train workers for shale gas jobs.
Why should the government use public money to train people with skills that benefit hugely profitable drilling companies like Haliburton? I’m not sure, but it works. It really is the American way of doing things. We are not a rigid ideology. We kind of fly by the seat of our pants. We train the guy Halliburton hires, the guy gets a $70K a year job, he pays taxes, buys stuff in town, and around and around it goes.
This has something to do with “velocity of money”, how fast money circulates from one hand to the next. You just keep things moving. Government spending. Private sector spending. Art not science. It’s all good. Even the waste.
In the current climate of – private sector good, government bad – a National HIghway bill would be defeated. The argument would be if interstate highways are so great the private sector will create them. Driving from Delaware to California is a privilege not a right. Why should we steal money from everybody so some people can drive faster and farther? The government is picking winners when it picks where those interchanges go.
So it really depends on how you look at things. I like our government. I think it’s done a lot for us.